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Buddha's Life
 Dhamma
Dhammapada
Buddhist Lent Day
Buddhism in Thailand
Buddhism Practice
Wat in Thailand

  BY PHRA ACHARN THATE DESARANSI : WAT HIN MAAK PENG NONGKHAI, THAILAND.
  CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN PHRA ACHARN THATE DESARANSI AND PHRA CHAICHAAN

R E S U M E : PHRA CHAICHAAN CHAYADHAMMO
He was a son of a well-to-do merchant in the downtown of Udorn Thani. He attended the Assumption School of Commerce and studied business. After schooling, he returned home and helped doing the family's business. He has been interested in Buddhism since he was a little more than ten years old. And this has been gnawing his mind all along. He practised meditation by himself with the help of books on meditation.

When he was twenty-seven years old, he took leave of his father and entered monkhood at Wat Bodhi Somporn. He passed the first grade for Dhamma students. Later he went to practise meditation with Phra Acharn Maha Buwa at Wat Ban Tad, Udorn Thani. After two months, he began to suffer from haemorrhoids. So he took leave of monkhood in order to get medical treatment. At that time he had been in monkhood for eight months. After he had completely cured himself and had become healthier and stronger, he felt he missed the life of chastity which he had gone through during monkhood.

So he again took leave of his father and went to Wat Hin Mark Peng for training for several months. Then he asked for permission to enter monkhood, but his father was not willing to give permission for fear that his son's health would decline and become prone to illness again.

Nevertheless, with genuine faith in Buddhism, he made a resolution that as long as he had this strong faith and confidence he would not let anybody turn down his intention. Finally his father had to yield permission. So he entered monkhood, this time at Wat Hin Mark Peng. Phra Acharn Thate was his Upajjhaya.

Having entered monkhood, he felt that even if he was able to work up to the state of calm quicker and keener than before, he felt that sometimes he was still shaken by external sense-objects. Nevertheless, since he has deep faith and confidence, he has been able to observe the life of monkhood up to now. He is responsible for translating English into Thai in Dhamma discussion classes, which are held at Wat Hin mark Peng.

Phra Chaichaan Chayadhammo renders the following questions to Phra Acharn Thate:

 QUESTION 1
May I have permission, sir. In talking about meditation, isn't it a king of showing off one's superhuman qualities? This is because one has to speak about experiences pertaining to the power of absorption(Jhana), concentration(Samadhi), the eight meditative attainments (Samapatti), and even the Way, the Goal, and Enlightenment. Isn't this going to defile the rules of conduct laid down by the Buddha?
 ANSWER 1

In discussion the practice of Dhamma, it is necessary to talk about the Citta(heart). And in talking about the Citta, it is necessary to talk about concentration(Samadhi) and calm (Samatha). And in talking about calm, it is necessary to talk about its power and its various stages (Jhana and Samapatti) up to the Way, the Goal, and Enlightenment. These are all necessary to talk about. If we do not speak of these things, how are we going to know what we are doing?

In the Dhamma or in the Vinaya (Rules of conducts for the ordained), the Teacher expounds: for the sake of higher morality, one must train oneself in higher precepts; for the sake of higher mentality, one must train oneself in higher mentality, that is concentration, and the various stages of absorption and concentration(Jhana and Samadhi); and for the sake of higher wisdom, one must train oneself in higher wisdom, which means the wisdom to transcend and comprehend truth up to way, the Goal, and Enlightenment. If we do not speak of these things, we will not be able to understand one another.

The Buddha laid down a rule prohibiting monks to show off the superhuman qualities, such as the speaking of the power of absorption and concentration, of the eight meditative stages, of an acquisition of the Way, the Goal, and Enlightenment, or even the speaking of mental quietude. The Buddha considers these grave ecclesiastical offenses (parajika), if the speaker speaks with an intention of showing off his own superhuman aspect.

The Teacher makes it clear that " to show off the superhuman aspect" means to show off the goodness and virtue of oneself, starting from absorption, concentration, and the eight meditative attainments up, especially for the sake of getting reverence, or for the sake of material gain, that is either relevant or irrelevant to one's virtue.

For this, one is not free from offenses. If one has really got the goodness and virtue as one has spoken of, then the offences may be light. However, when we are speaking of those things we have no such vain intention. We only intend to comprehend the principle of conduct, ad to which is wrong and which is right.

How can we be right and how can we be wrong? Which is Samadhi and which is Jhana? Which is the Way and which is the Foal? Now, if we speak this way, it means we speak for the sake of knowledge, especially in order that we may arrive at the right conduct. If we do not study and do not train ourselves this way, how are we going to understand the subject?

The Buddha and his disciples who explicated Buddhism all did so with references to those topics. So, you should understand that this is not an offense. We are training ourselves for the sake of purity, in order to comprehend. Clearly the heart of Dhamma. For this reason, it is not considered a vain display of the superhuman qualities.


 QUESTION 2
May I have permission, sir. In general, those who practise meditation assume one sense-object or another. Some times they may hold that sense- object for consideration, or, sometimes they may try to release it. Now, if they by circumtances are able to release it and shut it off, sometimes with an awareness(sati) and sometimes not. What are the differences between the two situations and what are these situations called?
 ANSWER 2

Those who are practising meditation usually assume one sense-object or another as an object of contemplation. This is so that the Citta (heart) may focus on one single point. Those who practise meditation have to do this, but it is difficult to achieve one-pointedness.

Nevertheless, they will try to attain the one-pointedness. Of attention. Then this is called Kanathana, or, sometimes called Samadhi, or, sometimes called Samatha. If the thoughts are still wandering off in various directions, then this is neither Samadhi nor Samatha, If the Citta is steady with one object, it is, as I used to say, one-pointed. In the scriptures, the Teacher talks about Jhana. He explains that it consists of four factors: thought conception (Vitakka), sustained conception(Vicara), delight, happiness, and one- pointedness. No need to explain them. When it comes to this last factor, there is left only one-pointedness. Here if the power of the Citta is ripe and vigourous, capable of retaining itself in that state for a considerable period of time, the Citta is brave and then shuts off from external sense-objects.

There is left only a consciousness. That is, an awareness becomes completely integrative with the Citta. Whatever Citta ,soever awareness (Sati). Whatever awareness, soever Citta There is consciousness within itself. In this moment, the Citta has no verbal conception, but it has its own exclusive nature. In my personal opinion and expression, that is the one-pointedness of the Citta (Ekaggata-Citta). That is, there is only the genuine Citta, nothing else. Here, we have the mental state, which is called Appana-Samadhi (Absorbtion Samadhi). This is to say, there are only an awareness and the Citta, lightened, bright and omniscient all alone. Like a clean and clear diamond, even if it were to be locked up in a tube, it would still glitter. This is called the one-pointedness of the Citta, the one genuine Citta.

Now let's go back to this point. You ask, sometimes when the Citta is steady upon one sense-object, you will release it, make the Citta take hold of nothing. You may thus cause it to be free and become indifferent, but this way is not altogether flawless. Mostly those who are keen in meditation will have an experience that, once attaining one-pointedness, the Citta will naturally become relieved on its own,

However, if we are keen, we may cause the Citta to release itself from a sense-object and leave itself at the one-pointed state (Ekaggata-Citta_. Yet, this will not give a feeling as intense and steady as it does when the Citta becomes released on its own. The same way is true when we first get into a place of wonder. The first time we visit, we are excited. But, once we have seen it and we go there again, we will feel as if we taste something rather bland. Of course, we get there, we get to the old place all right.

This may be called Appana-Samadhi. It's also correct, if you call it Appana-Jhana. The taste of Appana-jhana is a bit different: when the Citta flashes into that state, the Citta may waver on its own accord, without our intention. It does not waver because of external objects, but it gropes to see this and that as if full of wonders. Then the Citta usually gets carried away with joy in the wonders. Sometimes, there appear me tal images. Barious mental images take place at this stage.

Some times, one becomes enraptured in such happiness and calm, so that one might become attached to it. Here is what I call Appana-jhana. I talked in the beginning of one- pointedness in a sense-object (Ekaggata-ramana), and of Jhana as consisting of five factors, namely thought conception, sustained conception, delight, happiness, and one-pointedness. One-pointedness is the same as Ekaggata- ramana. Generally speaking one-pointedness in the four stages of Jhana refers to the four stages of fine. Material sphere (Rupa-Jhana). This is generally speaking.

Now, let's talk of Appana-Jhana. The Citta is one-pointed. Here at the point in which it gets carried away with a sense- object or a mental image, I call it Appana-Jhana. I talked in the beginning of one-pointedness in a sense-object (Ekaggata-ramana), and of Jhana as consisting of five factors, namely thought conception, sustained conception delight, happiness, and one-pointedness. One-pointedness is the same as Ekaggata-ramana. Generally speaking one- pointedness in the four stages of jhana refers to the four stages of fine. Material sphere (Rupa-Jhana). This is generally speaking Now, let's talk of Appana-Jhana. The Citta is one-pointed. Here at the point in which it gets carried away with a sense-object or a mental image, I call it Appana-Jhana.

Don't forget the word Jhana., It means to watch, to contemplate, to be satisfied and to be delighted with one thing or another, with happiness or with various mental images. This is Appana-Jhana. However, Appana-Samadhi is not that way. It gives no reaction to pleasure, but it (the Citta) is full and contented with what it is, not with external objects. Actually both the Appana-Jhana and the Appana- Samadhi are not particularly useful, except for taking a rest and for gaining strength, that is , for strengthening the Citta. That'' all. At that moment, we can't do anything we don't know all, we can't do all. It enters the original sphere of the Citta. It enters and stays in the way it's supposed to be orginally.

If that state be Jhana, when the citta withdraws from it. It will grope for various sense-objects as usual. The nature of the Citta is this: once it comes across a sense-contact, it follows the contacted image, whether it be the visual, the sound, the smell, the taste, or the touch. Nevertheless, the feeling won't be the same as before, for those objects will somehow taste bland to you, or else you will see that the various sense- objects are peculiar, funny, and ridiculous.

If it be the state of Appana-Samadhi, when the Citta withdraws from that, it will perceive the Three common characteristics of Nature(Tilakkhana) in every object and all material things, all even those in the non-conscious realm. It will see impermanence(Aniccam), suffering(Dukkham), and selflessness (Anatta). And it will become grave and bored with those objects. Eventually it will release itself from attachments wherever they are. There is left only graveness.

The fruits of Appana-Jhana and Appana-Samadhi differ like that. And those are only my own personal expressions and wordings. They may not agree with what you find in text books. If you who practise find them difficult to understand or find something you disagree, feel free to ask. Actually if one wishes to speak further there can still be a lengthy explanation on the subject. But, at this point I would like to stop here.




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