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BY
PHRA ACHARN THATE DESARANSI : WAT HIN MAAK PENG NONGKHAI, THAILAND. |
CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN PHRA
ACHARN THATE DESARANSI AND PHRA BUNTA PASANNACITTO |
R
E S U M E : PHRA BUNTA PASANNACITTO
Native of the province of Maha Sarakham, he sojourned in many
places to earn a living. He had just barely enough knowledge
to read and write. Once he met a monk who practised meditation.
After some conversation with the monk, he was inspired with
faith. So he left the life of laity and entered monkhood under
the supervision of an Upajjhaya named Phra Thep bundit of Wat
Sri Muang, Nong Khai Province. That was at the age of forty-six.
He spent one Vassa season with the Upajjhaya. After that he
took leave of him and spent the following Vassa seasons under
the supervision of Phra Acharn Thate at Wat Hin Maak Peng in
the district of Sri Chiangmai.
He has attended to the
practice of meditation regularly. Upon some doubts pertaining
to the practice, he asked Phra Acharn the following questions:
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Most
of the beginners in the practice of meditation usually wish
to comprehend the highest Dhamma, thinking that they have got
enough basis for comprehending it. If they do not know and do
not practise Dhamma at the elementary and intermediate levels
is it possible ? |
People today
are too anxious, When practising Dhamma, they wish to find
the quickest result possible. They sometimes do not even know
what the high Dhamma is. Most of them, as I have noticed,
think of the high Dhamma as miraculous experiences and abilities
to "see" this and that.
This is the
so-called "high Dhamma" of people today. Actually
Dhamma is discovered not because of our desire. Whenever we
have confidence (Sakkha) and practise efficently the four
principles of mindfulness (Satipatthana), Dhamma will eventually
present itself, whether it be the crude or the refined, the
high or the low. All these phases will dawn upon you automatically,
without your desire.
As a matter
of fact, desire will be quite a hindrance to the Realization
of Dhamma. Be not so covetous that you forget the Buddha's
teaching when he says: morality at its height of prosperity
does further the growth of wisdom. And wisdom at its height
of prosperity does further freedom, a complete detachment
from defilements and sufferings for that matter. The careless
ones, who have not acquired a taste for morality and meditation,
hearken heartily to the saying that only wisdom brings one
to freedom.
So they joyfully
sit around the tray of foods that are put in front of them
and gauge themselves hurriedly. Dhamma is not the foods nor
the rice which someone else sets before you. You have to prepare
it with your own heart. True Dhamma must be touched by the
heart. If we do not touch all things by the heart, how can
we achieve the total, mental comprehension or Panna ? How
can we realize what we have managed to get rid of, and what
not ? |
When
we contemplate the word "Buddho," until we become
absorbed in the word, is that called "Samadhi" or
"Samatha" ? What is the difference between samadhi
and Jhana ? How many times does the heart have to acknowledge
in order to be considered reaching the Appana-Samadhi state
? After the heart has fully maintained Samadhi, to what level
is one supposed to withdraw one's concentration so as to enhance
the growth of wisdom ? And once wisdom is developed, how clear
does it have to be in order to achieve insight? |
Samadhi and
Samatha are identical. When you contemplate verbally on the
word "buddho" until you achieve one-pointedness,
here you have Samadhi. The calmness of the heart, which does
not take to wandering, is called Samatha.
The teachers
usually talk of Samadhi and Jhana as the same thing. If I
explain to you here both the similarities and the differences,
it will take too long. In my book Pramuan Neo Patibut Dhamma
( Dhamma in Practice ), I have explained them quite in detail.
So if this is not clear, you may seek more information from
there. I will give just the gist of it like this: Samadhi,
can be observed on the basis of the three Cardinal Points
of Samadhi, while Jhana can be observed on the basis of Bhavanga
( the passive state ).
However, one
may start out with the same object of concentration, according
to one's preference. When you have decided upon a particular
object, say, you may choose to concentrate on the body, especially
on its solid matter, you may concentrate on it without seeking
the train of cause and consequence of that solid state, so
that the mind becomes focused to the point of BHAVANGA. Here
is what is called Jhana. And let it be understood that Uggaha&
Patibhaga ( the powers to retain and manipulate and object
of concentration ) are derived from Bhavanga. If Bhavanga
dies not take place, the two mentioned types of power cannot
take place. ( Bhavanga is a state in which the heart flashes
and rests itself in one particular state of its own. Sometimes
it is completely shut off ).
In Samadhi,
after we have chosen the body as an object of contemplation,
there must be reflection as to the followings: this body is
just an element of earth. What is each of the parts ? What
is its characteristic behaviour? How is this element of earth
developed? How does it take place? And what is the use of
its existence? Etc. Upon reflection, if the heart remains
one-pointed, and there is neither anxiety nor doubts in the
object of reflection, we will become clear as to the nature
of cause and consequence of the object.
In this case,
the heart does not enter Bhavanga or the passive state just
mentioned. However, when the heart is fully charged with power
due to through consideration, the heart will be capable of
entering the Appana -Sanadhi ( Absorption Samadhi). (Appana-Jhana
and Appana-Samadhi are different. It will take quite long
an explanation. And those who have never gone through them
in practice will, of course, find it difficult to understand
just the same.)
You asked how
many times does the heart have to acknowledge in order to
reach the Appana-Samadhi stage. Now, if you still have to
count on signs like that, your heart cannot passibly reach
the Appana stage. The Appana does not develop wisdom. It is
simply a stage in which the heart rests after work (or after
a sufficient amount of reflection).
As to the question
of how far are you supposed to with. Draw the heart in order
to obtain wisdom. The heart withdraws itself automatically
to the level of Uppacara- Samadhi.
Panna and vipassana
are different in character and, therefore, are used in different
context. Panna is used generally, beginning from the training
of the heart in Samatha all the way to Dhamma Vijaya (mental
reflections).
If the heart
is capable of perceiving the truth clearly so that the heart
becomes bored and withdraws itself from attachment to a particular
object, while at the same time the heart drops into a calm
state, then this is Vipassana. |
Some
say that various religious rituals, such as the Pansukula-Matika
in which monks are invited to perform funeral rites, are not
at all sensible: they are foolishly held by people. Is this
right? |
This view belongs
to the Samatha pragmatist. All those who are still dwelling
in the Samatha stage carry a view like that : anything, that
other people do and that are not conformable to their experience,
will be considered foolish, ridiculous, crazy, not leading
toward an extinction of suffering. Those at that stage if
citta are like that. That is, they reach the Samatha without
a well-rounded Panna.
So anyone who
gives a view like that can be predicted right off that he
is stuck at the Samatha without a well-rounded panna. So anyone
who gives a view like that can be predicted right off that
he is stuck at the Samatha stage. Once there was a monk who
had entered monkhood for more than ten years.
After he had
gone through the strenuous job of contemplation, he attained
the state of calm. He was very delighted with it. But then
turned his view against religious rituals, saying they were
all foolish. Later his KAMMATTHANA ( Meditation ) deteriorated.
He took to a
widow. So he left monkhood and went to live with her for about
five to six months, but he could not put up with her. So he
came back again to monkhood. This time he sew that acts and
objects of generosity and contribution that laymen rendered
to the monks were kindling the monks' Kilesa (defilements).
Finally, he could not stay in monkhood. Becoming a layman
this time, he was even worse than before. He was ridiculed
by youngsters and all. This is the story of one being stuck
to Samatha.
Religious rituals
are signs of Buddha.Sasana. If there had been no ritual, what
would be used as a meansuring device, since the heart by itself
is not concrete. And the speech by itself cannot call for
consent. The religion has been able to stand firm and lasted
up to this time because of all those various rituals. Some
built the U posatha hall, Sala, and Kuti for the sake of a
deceased person, this is how a Wat got established and lasted
till today. If a tree appears only with its core, it will
not be able to stand long. It needs the bark and the periderm
to protect the core, so that it will not die.
This is also
true with the Buddha sasana. It does need those religious
rituals as something to protect and help it grow. This is
how it has lasted from time past up to this day.
Those who are
stuck in the state of calm feel that they have no more Kilesa
( defilements ). They feel no need to examine further as to
the cause and effect of right and wrong. Therefore, they do
not know which is which. Later when the Samatha power deteriorates,
he may not retain himself in monkhood. Some who have left
monkhood that way usually are not able to find a way back
to the temple. |
Some
of the Vatta or regular duties, such as those due to the acharn
( Teacher ), Upajjhaya ( preceptor at the ordination of a Bhikkhu
), Senasna ( dwelling ), Bhattakka (meal),and Veccak kakuti
(toilet), are considered by some as utterly insignificant. One
can attend to them or leave them. Is this right? |
The regular
duties in the Buddha Sasana must be attended to with no exception
by all ordained ones. The secular saying has it that : cultured
people must know how to attend to what they have got. The
Buddha approved of those regular duties and called them Vatta.
This means, of course, to do, to attend to.
If we do not
yet know how to attend to what we've got, we'll be considered
uncivilized. The buddha Sasana has developed a culture higher
than that in the secular sphere. Therefore, if those, who
have entered monkhood, see not the value of the Buddhist culture,
they will certainly turn out savage indeed.
Just consider
if there were no one to attend to the dining-hall, if all
came to dine and then walked away. What would that dining-hall
be like? This is one example. To speak the plain truth: since
human beings ate not lowly animals, we eat and then we excrete;
nevertheless, we must eat and excrete in proper places, after
which we must help one another clean them. " This is
Vatta. "
Aside from the
reference to their being good culture, those duties are also
physical exercises for good health. For those who have attained
perfection in morality and Dhamma, having at their disposal
both Sati ( awareness ) and panna ( wisdom ), they will have
those duties as their shelter ( vihara Dhamma ). |
Some
consider the Buddha's Dhamma selfish, right? |
Right, the Buddha'
Dhamma seems to be selfish, if they refer to that Pali text,
'One is one's own refuge." However, this saying of the
Buddha may have an interpretation entirely different from
what it is understood. The point is, in doing or in saying
anything, there must be a doer, that is, the subject of the
deed or the self, otherwise there cannot be a recognizable
deed. Neither can there be an understandable speech.
Therefore, the
Buddha teaches one to begin with the self, make it accountable
and efficient. Then it may be accountable and efficient for
other people.
Now if the meditation
pragmatist, who is stuck in the calm stage, refuses to do
anything but meditation, as already mentioned in Answer 9,
he may cause a speculative person to conclude that the Buddha's
Dhamma teaches one to be selfish. In fact, the Buddha reminded
the monks even in his last words that, " Bhikkhu, you
shall with prudence attend to those deeds boht for the good
of yourselves and others." This shows that the Buddha
does not teach one to turn selfish after one has sufficiently
confirmed oneself in goodness.
A dogmatist
usually conjectures that in carrying on a deed for others,
one has to sacrifice all by way of personal matters
as, for
example, the Bodhisatva in the Mahayanist School, who refuses
to become inlightened in order to help others. Never.
Theless, a Bodhisatva
is actually a person working toward enlightenment. He is a
person working for the good of himself, but in the meantime
he is working also for the good of other people. It is difficult
to understand for those who have not trained themselves and
for those who do not know the actual self. So, even if they
perform good deeds for their own self and for other's so that
they succeed in reaching their goals, they are still incapable
of conceiving the person or the place to Which the goodness
goes. |
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